Tino: GREAT post. I will respond to it in depth later.
I bet the answer to the Harry met Sally question is this:
It depends on the people involved.
Of course, this answer is no fun, but let's think of it this way:
Make two lists, one for the qualities you want in a best friend, the other for qualities you want in your ideal romantic partner. Now, the degree of correlation between the two lists determines the probability of you thinking of a friend as a potential sex partner.
Back to the original question:
Can two singles of opposite sex be "friends" in the way that neither of them ever think of the other as a potential sex partner? The answer is yes if the friend list and partner list have no correlation. And the answer is yes if they are both in denial about wanting to fuck each other.
Of course people can choose not to act on feelings. But I don't think that is what this question is really about.
Wednesday, March 5, 2008
I'd give him...a 5?
I love When Harry Met Sally so much. And this is a fascinating topic.
I think maybe relationships are like a continuum. Like different degrees of closeness to a person. If we're talking about romantic possibilities, then "stranger" would be zero and "spouse" would be ten, in terms of closeness.
So does sex "get in the way?" Well, if you have it with someone, you'd certainly skip a few numbers. If you don't, then your "closeness" to that person can still be somewhere on the continuum.
I think one question is: can we (single people) handle the idea that we're attracted to someone (another single) and still be his/her friend? I think yes, if s/he is worth being friends with and your friendship functions. Then if both parties want to take it up a few notches to a sexual/romantic relationship, then it runs its course there and you either break up or end up staying together. And if one party doesn’t want to take it to a sexual level, then it keeps going at the level that it is. If the “I’m in love with you” partner can’t handle a platonic friendship, then you end up broken up like you would after a failed romantic relationship. (I think friendships have “break ups” pretty often. I’ve had a few with some girls.)
Can we handle knowing that someone is attracted to us and still be friends if we don’t like them “that way”? Yes, if we aren't sending mixed signals. Anyone who is reading more into “friendship” than there is just requires a simple “this is what we are” conversation. (And shame on people who lead a person on to use his affections as an ego boost, on a side note.)
Can we handle the idea that someone we are attracted to doesn't like us back "that way," but we are still friends? If your ego can handle that, then why not be friends?
I guess my thesis is that hetero men and women who are both single CAN be friends with each other. Sure, there are some complications as with any relationship (platonic, romantic, family, etc.), but those complications only extend as far as how much people’s egos are wrapped up in what other people think of them.
If, for instance, you can’t handle the idea that someone would want to be friends with you but not want to sleep with you, then you might be setting yourself up for some difficulties in friendships with the opposite sex, since there are surely to be people in the world who like you but don’t want to get it on with you.
Similarly, if you are friends with someone who appreciates your friendship and ALSO wants to sleep with you even though you don’t want to sleep with him, then somebody’s going to just have to be disappointed in that situation. And then he gets over it, and he can either take your friendship for what it is, or leave it.
On a slightly different but still related topic:
It all comes down to acceptance—acceptance of people how they are right now, at face value, in all of their current behaviors, and acceptance of yourself and your role in your relationships.
And then once you accept the way a relationship is, then you make the choice of whether you want to stay or leave (friendship or sig. other). Since there’s (unfortunately) no such thing as convincing someone to be in love with you, or to be out of love with you, for that matter. And there’s for damn sure no way to make someone be a better person for you to date.
Too many people want to try to fenagle the relationships they are already in instead of taking them or leaving them for what they are--probably because it is really scary and awkward to break up with someone and cut them out of your life. It just is. I've made this very long and drawn-out fenagling mistake myself.
Similarly, some people are scared to start relationships at all because they could potentially lead to a scary and painful break-up or (even scarier to some) a life spent in partnership with only that one person.
But one thing's for sure, "putting yourself out there" will, at some point, lead to an ego bruise of some kind. It's a risk no matter how interested the person is. I think, however, that it is totally worth it, and that life hands out ego bruises all the time that we have to accept and grow from (and simultaneously not allow to crush our entire self-images).
But yeah, single guys and girls can be friends, I think. If both parties want to take it to a sexual level, then they do, and it moves into a relationship status that either runs its course smoothly or ends in firey tragedy. But if one party doesn't want it to be sexual, then it won't be, and both can be accepting of that and continue to be friends.
Now, fuck buddies, or "friends with benefits"...there's a topic that's more shaky.
I think maybe relationships are like a continuum. Like different degrees of closeness to a person. If we're talking about romantic possibilities, then "stranger" would be zero and "spouse" would be ten, in terms of closeness.
So does sex "get in the way?" Well, if you have it with someone, you'd certainly skip a few numbers. If you don't, then your "closeness" to that person can still be somewhere on the continuum.
I think one question is: can we (single people) handle the idea that we're attracted to someone (another single) and still be his/her friend? I think yes, if s/he is worth being friends with and your friendship functions. Then if both parties want to take it up a few notches to a sexual/romantic relationship, then it runs its course there and you either break up or end up staying together. And if one party doesn’t want to take it to a sexual level, then it keeps going at the level that it is. If the “I’m in love with you” partner can’t handle a platonic friendship, then you end up broken up like you would after a failed romantic relationship. (I think friendships have “break ups” pretty often. I’ve had a few with some girls.)
Can we handle knowing that someone is attracted to us and still be friends if we don’t like them “that way”? Yes, if we aren't sending mixed signals. Anyone who is reading more into “friendship” than there is just requires a simple “this is what we are” conversation. (And shame on people who lead a person on to use his affections as an ego boost, on a side note.)
Can we handle the idea that someone we are attracted to doesn't like us back "that way," but we are still friends? If your ego can handle that, then why not be friends?
I guess my thesis is that hetero men and women who are both single CAN be friends with each other. Sure, there are some complications as with any relationship (platonic, romantic, family, etc.), but those complications only extend as far as how much people’s egos are wrapped up in what other people think of them.
If, for instance, you can’t handle the idea that someone would want to be friends with you but not want to sleep with you, then you might be setting yourself up for some difficulties in friendships with the opposite sex, since there are surely to be people in the world who like you but don’t want to get it on with you.
Similarly, if you are friends with someone who appreciates your friendship and ALSO wants to sleep with you even though you don’t want to sleep with him, then somebody’s going to just have to be disappointed in that situation. And then he gets over it, and he can either take your friendship for what it is, or leave it.
On a slightly different but still related topic:
It all comes down to acceptance—acceptance of people how they are right now, at face value, in all of their current behaviors, and acceptance of yourself and your role in your relationships.
And then once you accept the way a relationship is, then you make the choice of whether you want to stay or leave (friendship or sig. other). Since there’s (unfortunately) no such thing as convincing someone to be in love with you, or to be out of love with you, for that matter. And there’s for damn sure no way to make someone be a better person for you to date.
Too many people want to try to fenagle the relationships they are already in instead of taking them or leaving them for what they are--probably because it is really scary and awkward to break up with someone and cut them out of your life. It just is. I've made this very long and drawn-out fenagling mistake myself.
Similarly, some people are scared to start relationships at all because they could potentially lead to a scary and painful break-up or (even scarier to some) a life spent in partnership with only that one person.
But one thing's for sure, "putting yourself out there" will, at some point, lead to an ego bruise of some kind. It's a risk no matter how interested the person is. I think, however, that it is totally worth it, and that life hands out ego bruises all the time that we have to accept and grow from (and simultaneously not allow to crush our entire self-images).
But yeah, single guys and girls can be friends, I think. If both parties want to take it to a sexual level, then they do, and it moves into a relationship status that either runs its course smoothly or ends in firey tragedy. But if one party doesn't want it to be sexual, then it won't be, and both can be accepting of that and continue to be friends.
Now, fuck buddies, or "friends with benefits"...there's a topic that's more shaky.
A dead horse
I just moved into a new house and we don't get the internet set up for a few more days. In my absence yall have nearly exhausted the When Harry Met Sally topic, but regardless, here's my input...
I am what some people call a serial-dater. I have spent roughly 2 of the past 10 years as a single woman. This is not out of insecurity or a compulsion to constantly have a man in my life, but rather a series of unfortunate circumstances that I have only recently come to realize are no one's fault but my own. (This can be addressed at a later date.)
With that said, I understand that my perspective on things may be skewed because I have pretty much always been "taken", and in most of my experience, others have seen me that way too. (So, this may be an example of "married" person A and single person B). However, I have had very little trouble establishing completely platonic relationships with a number of guys. This is not to say that I have completely avoided the awkward experiences of one-sided crushes, rather that they are infrequent in comparison to the healthy friendships I have cultivated.
I do firmly believe that you can be friends with someone of the opposite gender with no romantic feelings from either side. However, perhaps this belief of mine can be explained in the scenarios that have already been presented.
1. The "taken" phenomenon
2. When I look at my closest girl friends... girls I have known and loved since I was 12... girls I have grown and matured with and who know me as well (or better) than I know myself and vice versa-- even if they were guys, I would not want to date them. What I am looking for in a partner is not necessarily what I have formed with them... So, perhaps my "quality lists" don't overlap as much as some others'.
So, we come full circle to what all of us probably already knew before this topic even came up... I guess it just depends on the person...
In a related subject... Anyone have any insight into the "friends with the ex" issue? Possible? Not possible? Sure, sure, it depends on the person, but I have recently found myself having the conversation with friends, both male and female, and there seems to be a distinct contrast between the responses. Just looking for a few more opinions.
I am what some people call a serial-dater. I have spent roughly 2 of the past 10 years as a single woman. This is not out of insecurity or a compulsion to constantly have a man in my life, but rather a series of unfortunate circumstances that I have only recently come to realize are no one's fault but my own. (This can be addressed at a later date.)
With that said, I understand that my perspective on things may be skewed because I have pretty much always been "taken", and in most of my experience, others have seen me that way too. (So, this may be an example of "married" person A and single person B). However, I have had very little trouble establishing completely platonic relationships with a number of guys. This is not to say that I have completely avoided the awkward experiences of one-sided crushes, rather that they are infrequent in comparison to the healthy friendships I have cultivated.
I do firmly believe that you can be friends with someone of the opposite gender with no romantic feelings from either side. However, perhaps this belief of mine can be explained in the scenarios that have already been presented.
1. The "taken" phenomenon
2. When I look at my closest girl friends... girls I have known and loved since I was 12... girls I have grown and matured with and who know me as well (or better) than I know myself and vice versa-- even if they were guys, I would not want to date them. What I am looking for in a partner is not necessarily what I have formed with them... So, perhaps my "quality lists" don't overlap as much as some others'.
So, we come full circle to what all of us probably already knew before this topic even came up... I guess it just depends on the person...
In a related subject... Anyone have any insight into the "friends with the ex" issue? Possible? Not possible? Sure, sure, it depends on the person, but I have recently found myself having the conversation with friends, both male and female, and there seems to be a distinct contrast between the responses. Just looking for a few more opinions.
Tuesday, March 4, 2008
Fight to the death: Sexer VS Sexie
This Post is in Response to peacebone's post (Below).
Definitions:
The Sexer: wants to fuck.
The Sexie: does not want to fuck The Sexer.
Can a single guy and a single girl have a truly platonic friendship? No. The friendship can exist, but one of them (The Sexer) will want to have sex with the other one (The Sexie) most of the time. The Sexer may be the boy one month, and the next month perhaps the girl is The Sexer with the boy being The Sexie. If both the boy and girl happen to be The Sexer at the same time, then a sexual relationship will most likely come out of the friendship. But there is another option. Let’s say they both want to jump each other but they are both too inhibited (by social or experience or cowardice factors) so they don’t. In this case they are both Sexers, but they remain friends because they lack the balls to do anything else.
Let’s examine another case.
Given:
Husband A and Wife A are married.
Husband B and Wife B are married.
Both marriages (A and B) are healthy. Both sets of couples are actually in love with their spouse(s) and are devoted to their spouse(s) and their marriages.
Then let’s say that Husband A and Wife B work together. Can they be platonic friends at work? (Meaning that they are friendly and like to talk to each other at work but only do anything outside of work together on really rare occasions: less than once per year) Yes, they can be platonic friends in this case.
If you have a gay man and a straight girl, they can be platonic friends.
What if you have some other combination? One married couple (Husband A and Wife A) and then you have Single Girl C. Can Single Girl C be friends with Wife A? Of course! Can Single Girl C be friends with Husband A? Yes, but the friendship will not be as relaxed as it would be if Single Girl C was married. In other words: Sex does get in the way a little, but most people are able to ignore this.
If you have any other combination, sex will get in the way a little, in different degrees. How the parties handle these sexual urges determines how real the friendship is.
Now that I am married, (And everyone knows it) it is much easier for me to be friends with men who respect marriage. If I happen upon men that do not respect marriage I stop talking to them. (This is a story for another post.) But still, the “friendships” I have with these guys are very light. They are nothing compared to the friendship I have with my husband. But I am also sleeping with my husband, so sex doesn’t get in the way for us, it enhances our friendship. Since I have been married, I have gotten alot closer to Jips in a way I was not able to predict. Working through life problems together, being a family, and being totally secure in our future together changes and enhances our relationship.
How does my friendship with my husband compare to the best girl friendship I have ever had? It is close, but I am closer to my husband. Sex makes us closer, he knows the whole sexual side of me that my best girlfriends don’t know, but at the same time, he also knows me similarly to the way my girlfriends know me.
I am closer to my husband but my girl friends are still incredibly important to me.
I was friends with a boy for years, and now that I am married he won’t talk to me AT ALL.
And then a different boy, wouldn’t talk to me at all until he found out that I WAS married.
Monday, March 3, 2008
I can, with certainty, say we survive
Sorry about your grandma Fermi. My last grandparent died in February (right after Valentines day) 2 years ago. I don't know if I'll ever stop feeling guilty for not having wanted to spend more time around my grandparents when they were here.
Well, aside from wishing you well, I wanted to start a little bit of a discussion. Just something I've been curious about (to better explain it in a sentence fragment).
I can't remember how old I was when I noticed the phenomenon of girls talking about how they've "always gotten along better with guys," implying that they find female relationships hard to cultivate. I guess this is related to Tino's earlier post about women wanting an "in" of some male power, but I think this is different.
Personally, I've always found female relationships much easier to start and develop and much more comfortable throughout. It's only been recently that I've found myself friends with more men. A change that has taken place strictly based on my discovery of the awesomeness of the gay man. I also also fancy myself friends with some married (or might as well be) dudes. So I guess the only men I am friends with are completely unavailable in a sexual or relationship sense.
Maybe this is more of my hangup, that I immediately think of single guys as belonging to one of two categories: boyfriend material or non-boyfriend material. Either label is not likely to promote too much amicability. For one, they cause a lot of anxiety (and in turn, bizarre, uncharacteristic behavior) on my part and I can't imagine that even the subconscious sense of being evaluated and sorted on this basis is good for anyone's ego.
But I digress. The other option is the When Harry Met Sally Perplex. Can men and women be friends or does sex get in the way? I don't fashion myself any sort of Carry Bradshaw in training, but I've found that, for me personally, it's been nothing short of impossible.
Thoughts?
Well, aside from wishing you well, I wanted to start a little bit of a discussion. Just something I've been curious about (to better explain it in a sentence fragment).
I can't remember how old I was when I noticed the phenomenon of girls talking about how they've "always gotten along better with guys," implying that they find female relationships hard to cultivate. I guess this is related to Tino's earlier post about women wanting an "in" of some male power, but I think this is different.
Personally, I've always found female relationships much easier to start and develop and much more comfortable throughout. It's only been recently that I've found myself friends with more men. A change that has taken place strictly based on my discovery of the awesomeness of the gay man. I also also fancy myself friends with some married (or might as well be) dudes. So I guess the only men I am friends with are completely unavailable in a sexual or relationship sense.
Maybe this is more of my hangup, that I immediately think of single guys as belonging to one of two categories: boyfriend material or non-boyfriend material. Either label is not likely to promote too much amicability. For one, they cause a lot of anxiety (and in turn, bizarre, uncharacteristic behavior) on my part and I can't imagine that even the subconscious sense of being evaluated and sorted on this basis is good for anyone's ego.
But I digress. The other option is the When Harry Met Sally Perplex. Can men and women be friends or does sex get in the way? I don't fashion myself any sort of Carry Bradshaw in training, but I've found that, for me personally, it's been nothing short of impossible.
Thoughts?
Saturday, March 1, 2008
too much of a shock
My Grandmother died today. Yesterday, my dad sent me an email from work.
Subject: My Mother
Fermi,
I don't know if mom or I have told you about my mother. About a month ago your aunt S---- told me that my mother was now on "total care" and was having increasing difficulty swallowing and that, associated with other issues, led to the decision to put her on hospice care. That means she may die soon. And I just wanted you to be aware of that so if one day we call you to tell you she has died, it won't come as too much of a shock.
Love Dad
If you would like to discuss, mom is off work today around the house or on her cell in town, I am at work: xxx-xxx-xxxx
He flew up there yesterday. Aunt A---- flew up today. Five minutes after Aunt A---- walked into the room, my grandmother passed. They aren't going to have a funeral. Just a memorial service some time in the future in the town where she lived before my Aunt S---- started to take care of her. I was more worried about my dad, but my mom says he is doing well.
There are nice flowers in my apartment complex. It snowed less than 7 days ago, but it was sunny and beautiful today.
mars passion
Welcome to March guys! For you fellow durty south residents, we've but days to wait before 90 degrees is felt without. I've been inspired to higher forms of language by Mr. Shakespeare, since I'm essential reading Julius Casesar three times a day.
Isn't it great when you have one of those days when it just strikes you that you're happy?
The components of my happiness:
Isn't it great when you have one of those days when it just strikes you that you're happy?
The components of my happiness:
- Tazo passion tea. bright, red velvet cake red coloring; rich, full, fruity taste; caffeine free.
- 2nd grad school acceptance
- 1st grad school acceptance now offering a scholarship
- cryptic e-mail from 3rd grad school telling me that they received my application for student aid before I've gotten anything about being accepted?
- beautiful Saturday weather and a run around the lakes planned
- party planned for tonight
- 10 hours of sleep (twice the amount I get during the week)
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)